Gas Prices in Rupert

[Abysmalia]

Just hit $1.48 in St. John's, NF, I'm told. Two 20¢ jumps in two days. Insane.

Holy christ it's almost 1.50 thanks to Hurricane Katrina.

[jesus]

Just hit $1.48 in St. John's, NF, I'm told. Two 20¢ jumps in two days. Insane.

Holy christ it's almost 1.50 thanks to Hurricane Katrina.

you really believe thats why?

[Ivan]

Just hit $1.48 in St. John's, NF, I'm told. Two 20¢ jumps in two days. Insane.

Holy christ it's almost 1.50 thanks to Hurricane Katrina.

you really believe thats why?

Please, tell me why gas prices are rising if you know the truth.

[MiG]

Please, tell me why gas prices are rising if you know the truth.

Ivan, the gas you're buying now is from oil that was "bought" 6 months ago.

If, as the oil companies claim, that "crude costs" are approximately 42% of gas prices:



then look at it this way: crude oil has increased about 50% in the last year or so. Gas at the pump prices have increased nearly 65%.

If the rise in crude prices were the only factor in the rising gas prices, you'd see at most, a 21% or so rise in gas prices.

Why the difference? Why is gas so much more expensive than it should be? Especially when the oil they're using now was bought a long time ago (and much cheaper than today's prices?). You'll find that profits are way up!

Ah capitalism -- the price will go up as long as there is no competition and you keep buying.

[Ivan]

Please, tell me why gas prices are rising if you know the truth.

Ivan, the gas you're buying now is from oil that was "bought" 6 months ago.

Are you trying to say that the effect of supply and demand shouldn't take place until the oil after katrina is refined and sent to the pump?

[MiG]

The point is that Katrina has nothing to do with either supply or demand of today's gas. Oil is actually dropping in price, you know that, right?

The supply is already here, Katrina won't make that supply smaller.

The demand is the same as it's always been, Katrina won't make that demand greater (first indications say that it's actually made the demand smaller).

Katrina may have an influence on oil prices (so far it hasn't), but even if it has, then that effect won't hit the pumps for 6 months.

No, today's gas prices are profiteering. I'm willing to bet that the oil companies know that people would buy gas at even $2.00/litre or more. Profits all around!

[Ivan]

The point is that Katrina has nothing to do with either supply or demand of today's gas. Oil is actually dropping in price, you know that, right?

The supply is already here, Katrina won't make that supply smaller.

The demand is the same as it's always been, Katrina won't make that demand greater (first indications say that it's actually made the demand smaller).

Katrina may have an influence on oil prices (so far it hasn't), but even if it has, then that effect won't hit the pumps for 6 months.

No, today's gas prices are profiteering. I'm willing to bet that the oil companies know that people would buy gas at even $2.00/litre or more. Profits all around!

Haven't numerous countries, including Canada, offered to increase the supply to precipitate the drop in oil price? If the supply of oil has nothing to do with prices, why are they dipping into reserves to increase it? Is it a move intended to keep the prices stabilized six months from now?

[MiG]

Remember, according to the oil companies, crude oil cost is only "42%" of the cost of gas. So when oil goes up, it should only influence 42% of the cost of gas, right?

Here's a very graphic example of the difference in rise of oil vs the rise of gas:

(these are US graphs, gas prices have increased at a greater rate in Canada, but the comparison is still worthy)

Oil prices:



Since March, from $55 to $68 or so -- increase of about 24 % or so.

Gas prices (US prices, Canadian prices actually increased more)



Since March, from $1.40 to $2.60, increase of about 85 % increase or so. These are wholesale prices.


So, if the oil companies are right, and crude costs are responsible for 42 % of the price of gas, then why does an increase of 24 % in that crude cost in three months mean an increase of 85 % of the gas price? Why not 10% in three months? Their costs have basically increased 10%, so why an 85 % in increase?

Not because of Katrina. (you'll find gas prices went down after Katrina).

[Ivan]

Gotta go to brunch. Your graphs look pretty cool. I'll continue this discussion after I get back.

[MiG]

Haven't numerous countries, including Canada, offered to increase the supply to precipitate the drop in oil price? If the supply of oil has nothing to do with prices, why are they dipping into reserves to increase it? Is it a move intended to keep the prices stabilized six months from now?

Exactly. Considering most Alberta producers can't even begin to increase production for a few months (thanks to the age-old government cap on production), that's exactly what they want to do.

It's a futures market, but don't kid yourself that supply or demand has anything to do with the retail price of gasoline. If it did, then shouldn't Petro-Canada's prices be cheaper (they produce most of Canada's oil, and cheaper!).

Why is oil that costs Petro-Canada $11/barrell, refined at a Petro-Canada refinery, sold as gas for $1.50/litre?

Esso Canada has to buy oil at $65/barrell, refine it outside Canada, ship it here, and still it manages to sell it for $1.50/litre?

Market forces don't operate in the retail gas market -- if they did, all the gas stations wouldn't have the exact gas price. So no supply and demand at the local pump.

Supply and demand has a lot to do with the price of crude, but that's about it.

[MiG]

Gotta go to brunch. Your graphs look pretty cool. I'll continue this discussion after I get back.

Follow the trend lines, they seem to tell the story that I'm trying to tell

If oil goes up 100%, gas should only go up 30-40% And historically and looking long-term, that's been true.

But it isn't true in the last couple of months, and it has zero to do with Katrina.

[herbie_popnecker]

Gotta go to brunch. Your graphs look pretty cool. I'll continue this discussion after I get back.

Follow the trend lines, they seem to tell the story that I'm trying to tell

If oil goes up 100%, gas should only go up 30-40% And historically and looking long-term, that's been true.

But it isn't true in the last couple of months, and it has zero to do with Katrina.

Bottled water goes for $1.89 a litre. Gas is cheap.

[orangetang]

So wow... 35+ hours of driving for the last weekend. I brought two jerry cans and filled up with whatever was cheapest both way. Fraser lake is still 108.9, and everywhere else is pretty much 118.X - 119.X. Even marine gas is 115.X or so... About 500Km a tank at ~$50, so $300 to Kelowna and back in the Firechicken. It could be worse considering the Greyhound is also $150 each way, and with your own car you can pack more shit, listen to your music, stop when and where you want and to top it off, save about 8-10 hours. Someone needs to thin out the Porcupine population around these parts though. I saw no animals between Kelowna and PG, 3 coyotes and a rabbit between PG and Terrace and about 18 porcupines between Terrace and here, on the western half. Gibs everywhere! They're so low to the ground and hard to see at night on wet concrete. Dry spots are fine, and the silverstars are premo for anything with glowing eyes from about 1Km away, but those prickly little bastards are so stupid and helpless... Release the wolves!

[Eso]

$200 in gas to Telkwa and back.

[orangetang]

That's so brutal... Led foot, Eso?