pipeline good for the north

[herbie_popnecker]

80% of my objection is using Kitimat and the channels, a direct route to the open sea is the only sensible thing.
The other 20% is because we're RETARDED not to refine it in Canada and ship gas/diesel to wherever we want. That's jobs and prosperity, not the freaking pipeline!
I grew up at the end of the pipeline in Burnaby. They work, and the leaks can be contained easier on land. But they don't make bloody jobs. Of the over 1000 kids Burnaby North I don't remember ONE who's Dad worked for the pipeline. They all worked for the refineries. And bought houses, raised kids and paid for their university and retired with cottages and motorhomes.
Not 50 jobs, more like 5,000 jobs.
My Grandfather argued for more secondary industry in Canada. WTF are we doing still arguing that? And arguing for MORE tote dat wood, draw dat water crap.

[Speakuppr]

My Grandfather argued for more secondary industry in Canada. WTF are we doing still arguing that? And arguing for MORE tote dat wood, draw dat water crap.

Profits for the foreign oil companies. Loving hearing the cons whining about foreign investment in environmental groups and groups driven by ideology. The funny thing is they don't see the delicious irony in their statements.

[DHCollins]

"Ummm... you haven't answered the question, but I guess you're too busy freaking out about a petroleum-based carcinogenic material"

So much for peripheral vision.

The question is moot to me because I don't think the project should go forward. Union jobs or not make no difference. This is a matter of ETHICS, not economics. Whether you believe it or not, you are your brother's keeper. And right now, your brothers and sisters in Alberta are getting sick off this stuff.

Now why would you exploit that for your own financial gain???


x

[PLA]

So much for peripheral vision.

You can't even answer the question.

This is a matter of ETHICS, not economics. Whether you believe it or not, you are your brother's keeper. And right now, your brothers and sisters in Alberta are getting sick off this stuff.

I am Albertan and a former BC'er. You don't need hazmat suits here.

I'm not an oil/gas worker.

Now why would you exploit that for your own financial gain???

It's called making a living and support families.

[Juijitsubrainiac]

This is a terrible idea. We take all the risk, big oil and Alberta reap all the reward. The government is trying to marginalize anyone who disagrees with this as radicals. How about we call them what they are - Locals. People who actually live in these areas.

[Speakuppr]

Approval should be withheld until we get credible answers on many worrisome questions:

• Pipelines routinely break, industry reassurances to the contrary. That being the case, we need to know by what means Enbridge Inc. and TransCanada Corp., sponsors of the Gateway and Keystone XL pipelines, respectively, plan to improve new pipe, pumps and so on over the lines prone to failure they’ve put in place to date.

TransCanada’s Keystone, in operation for just over a year, has already had a dozen spills. And an Enbridge pipeline rupture in Michigan’s Kalamazoo River last year caused the biggest oil spill in Midwest history. An ExxonMobil Corp. pipeline last year spilled oil into Montana’s Yellowstone River. Under U.S. federal pressure, BP PLC finally is rehabilitating a Prudhoe Bay network of pipelines that have spilled millions of gallons of oil.

Do the operators even know exactly what caused those breaks? What’s being done to anticipate and prevent spills across almost 4,000 km of proposed additional pipeline? We know that sand- and stone-laden tar-sands oil is more corrosive to pipe than conventional crude. What provisions, by way of sturdier pipe, have been made for that?

• Heavy-oil spills are much tougher to clean up than conventional crude. Surface skimmers, booms and vacuums used in spills are of little use since heavy oil quickly submerges and suffocates bottom-dwelling plant and animal life.

That being the case, approval should not be granted until the pipeline sponsors and community authorities the entire length of the proposed pipelines have “war gamed” a spill at any point along the two pipelines’ routes.

How, exactly, does one rapidly arrest a spill in a remote B.C. mountain range? Let’s see the plans, kilometre by kilometre. The Deepwater Horizon catastrophe taught us the consequences of inadequate emergency planning.

• Given its viscosity, tar-sands oil must be blended with a dilutent, called DilBit, that enables the crude to flow through the pipeline. DilBit contains the carcinogen benzene and other toxins. Industry reticence about the “secret sauce” of DilBit needs to end; communities at risk must know exactly what chemicals they’re dealing with in a spill. We know the compound is dangerous, given Enbridge’s haste in buying residential properties no longer habitable after its Michigan spill.

http://www.thestar.com/business/article ... e-approval

Interesting read. Also interesting the spin about how the people signed up to oppose are radicals, foreigners or just not legit.
Follow the money the oil industry is putting into brainwashing us. I'll take a few bucks from has been hollywood types to counter the stink of a process where the fix is in before it even starts. http://creekside1.blogspot.com/2012/01/ ... ce-on.html

Ethical oil is making a big todo about some brazillians that were signed up for the hearings without their knowledge ... but this tactic is old dirty tricks from the canadian republican party. .. http://creekside1.blogspot.com/2012/01/ ... -with.html

And just so we are clear about who we are dealing with when it comes to the communist chinese governments interest in pushing this down our throats... http://therealstory.ca/2012-01-07/bc-po ... ts-friends

[herbie_popnecker]

The "idea" of having an export route for Alberta's oil production is good.
The proposal on the table is disgusting. It delivers the absolute least economic benefit to the country as is possible.
The least amount of jobs possible.
The least cost for Enbridge.
But we residents of the Northern Resource Extraction Zone should be happy with the "least". You should be happy for two weeks work with a shovel as it goes through your town. With the bullshit lying ads they bought in your local paper and radio about foreign puppets.
You think you're "entitled" to benefit from your own country's resources? Be happy to get anything at all.

[Speakuppr]

The "idea" of having an export route for Alberta's oil production is good.
The proposal on the table is disgusting. It delivers the absolute least economic benefit to the country as is possible.
The least amount of jobs possible.
The least cost for Enbridge.
But we residents of the Northern Resource Extraction Zone should be happy with the "least". You should be happy for two weeks work with a shovel as it goes through your town. With the bullshit lying ads they bought in your local paper and radio about foreign puppets.
You think you're "entitled" to benefit from your own country's resources? Be happy to get anything at all.

Speaking of Jobs.. Do we really think the high canadian dollar is a result of our superior banks? Welcome to Petro Dollar ailment or more commonly referred to as the dutch disease;

In economics, the Dutch disease is a concept that explains the apparent relationship between the increase in exploitation of natural resources and a decline in the manufacturing sector. The mechanism is that an increase in revenues from natural resources (or inflows of foreign aid) will make a given nation's currency stronger compared to that of other nations (manifest in an exchange rate), resulting in the nation's other exports becoming more expensive for other countries to buy, making the manufacturing sector less competitive. While it most often refers to natural resource discovery, it can also refer to "any development that results in a large inflow of foreign currency, including a sharp surge in natural resource prices, foreign assistance, and foreign direct investment".

The term was coined in 1977 by The Economist to describe the decline of the manufacturing sector in the Netherlands after the discovery of a large natural gas field in 1959.

Interestingly enough, it appears the tar sands and the pipelines may not only be harmful to the environment but also to the Canadian Economy. In short .. it's not just North Coast jobs at risk here, the negative impact will be felt across Canada. Some interesting articles on the impact of the foreign investment flowing into Canada... the petro kind not Oliver's Hollywood dollars..

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/matt-price ... 80255.html

http://environmentaldefence.ca/blog/pet ... tario-jobs

[herbie_popnecker]

I will argue the dollar's not artificially high. It was artificially low for decades.
We were told that natural resources weren't worth much for a long time. And manufacturers/producers could hide behind a low dollar instead of upgrading and improving productivity while the GST helped. And Free Trade kicked in so they could bale out of Canada altogether.
Now they want to export those raw logs and crude oil, the fish and the cattle. the ore and the ingots. We should be thankful for as little as possible. They can do it again, pay those entry level workers with 69c dollars.
And target Kitimat. They're used to it. Fuck up a whole goddam river system and end up with dick shit. Fucking up a whole coastline and maybe 1,000 miles of interior wilderness for 50 new jobs would finish things nicely.

[herbie_popnecker]

Here's more deceit to feed the fire, I forgot about it until the Chamber got pissed off here.
We all got Facebook notices to click if you "like" Fort St. James. If you clicked like, you discovered you now supported the Gateway Project and pipeline.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Fort-St-J ... 9529500584
Note the picture of our Chamber of Commerce log building trying to imply they support it. And the comments of people and Directors that this is total bullshit.
I reported it as a scam and encourage others to report the page as well.

[PLA]

Reported.

This is pretty low on the pipeline supporters' part.

[Speakuppr]

Reported.
This is pretty low on the pipeline supporters' part.

When foreign oil companies pour $100 million into Public Relations to get the oil pipeline through the regulatory process, this is an example of how their money will be spent to confuse the issue and make people think public opinion is on their side. The people behind the "Ethical Oil" mouthpiece for the oil companies are working overtime to sway public opinion. The comments I've heard around town about how our oceans can recover from oil spills make me think the ads are working.

The same tactics were used in California to defeat the 2006 Proposition 87 which preserved California's status as the third largest US oil producer and only one of the 22 major oil states to give the industry a free ride.

Recommended reading The Tyranny of Oil for what tactics we can expect in the coming year. http://www.tyrannyofoil.org/

If you look at the history of how oil companies get their way you'll see this is actually mild but as they become more desperate, be prepared to watch your civil liberties attacked. We all know "Radicals" don't deserve the same liberties that God Fearing Conservative Voting Citizens have.

[Speakuppr]

Since Ethical Oil will become a household name as the media reports on the Enbridge Hearings, It's important we understand a bit more about "Ethical Oil" (The site is named after a book penned by Ezra Levant who is the darling of the Harper Cons). While the fact that Ethical Oil is on the same web server hosting Jason Kenney and Joe Oliver is not a crime, it appears at least to me to be a bit too coincidental, cozy and close for comfort.

Ethical Oil political connections, part 1: Conservatives “Go Newclear”]
Posted on January 13, 2012

As a once in a generation Canadian pipeline review process gets underway, the rhetoric around the massive Northern Gateway project has heated up noticeably. The Conservative government and the Ethical Oil pro-industry group seemed to take turns ratcheting up attacks on environmental groups opposing the project almost daily. Natural Resources Minister Joe Oliver may have set a new low in his recent attacks on those who would “hijack our regulatory system to achieve their radical ideological agenda”, backed by “foreign special interest groups”, not to mention “billionaire socialists … like George Soros”. The eerie echoes of Ethical Oil’s recent advertising campaign and back-and-forth timing have led some to recall previously discussed ties between Stephen Harper’s Conservative government and key Ethical Oil figures Ezra Levant and former executive director Alykhan Velshi (now safely back in the PMO).

But it turns out there are other interesting ties behind the scenes. An examination of the web server hosting EthicalOil.org reveals a network of fifty or so websites, mainly on behalf of right-wing causes and politicians. The latter include two Conservative cabinet ministers, Velshi’s old boss immigration minister Jason Kenney and that scourge of foreign billionaire socialists, Joe Oliver. And it also points to the key involvement of Go Newclear Productions, a somewhat mysterious “full service digital agency with a focus on public affairs and politics”.

Go Newclear is headed up by none other than political wunderkind Hamish Marshall, already a veteran of both the PMO and the Conservative federal council – and husband of hapless Ethical Oil spokesperson Kathryn Marshall. The other Go Newclear directors /officers (and presumed principals) are linked to the Conservative PR machine known as the Conservative Resources Group; radio and TV advertising specialist Brendan Jones left the CRG in 2009, while developer Travis Freeman, astonishingly enough, is still with the group. Not only that, but the Ethical Oil cluster of websites and Joe Oliver.ca form a distinct sub-group within the Go Newclear network, with unmistakeable signs of common development and a deployment seemingly aimed at obfuscating the link to Newclear team. So there is more than just common ideology tying EthicalOil.org to the Conservative PR machine; they also share digital service providers – and a lack of transparency.

http://deepclimate.org/2012/01/13/ethic ... -newclear/

[Speakuppr]

The best way to tell if someone is lying is to ask them a direct question and watch how they respond to it.

Watch the representative of Ethical Oil trying to invoke the theme of Canadian Nationalism and insisting Ethical Oil is a grassroots organization rallying support against US funded radical environmentalists. (That's anyone who opposes the pipeline btw). She is repeatedly asked whether Ethical Oil has received any funding from Enbridge. Watch how she twists, turns and deflects the question to avoid answering truthfully.

Herbie pointed out the existence of a mystery facebook page - Fort St James supports the Northern Gateway. If you are on facebook, search northern gateway and you'll see the same pages have been created for Prince George, Vanderhoof, Fraser Lake, Burns Lake, Houston, Smithers and Kitimat.

Grass Roots movement my a**! This is the result of $100 million dollars given to Enbridge by ten foreign owned oil companies to get the pipeline approved through the regulatory process.

[Speakuppr]

So we understand who this lady and her husband who are behind "Ethical Oil" are. Take a look at how they use half truths and so called "Polls" to support the agenda of the Wild Rose Alliance in Alberta. http://www.albertadiary.ca/2011/06/poll ... l?tw_p=twt

Mr. Marshall is married to Kathryn Marshall, University of Calgary law student, member of the U of C Wildrose Alliance Club and vocal supporter of the Wildrose Alliance.

Is a picture beginning to form here? While it is possible that the Abingdon poll is legitimate, without more information it would also be reasonable to conclude that this might be a poll that was administered to a self-selecting sample for a client that desired a specific outcome.

It is interesting that the release of the Wildrose Alliance claims followed by only four days the publication in journalist Paul McLaughlin’s subscription-only Alberta Scan newsletter the details of a scientifically valid poll with results much less favourable to the Wildrose Alliance.

Keep in mind the tactics used in the past by the people behind "Ethical Oil" . We are starting and will continue to see the very same tactics in the Enbridge debate they used to support the Wildrose Alliance.

Disinformation poll tactics to make us Lemmings believe the cliff is the only path to economic prosperity.

Good article follows about the recent Enbridge poll claiming a majority of us are for the pipeline. http://www.pacificfreepress.com/news/1/ ... ling-.html

One of the aims of disinformation campaigns is to shake the resolve of people. And we are seeing ample evidence of this in the campaign to sell the Enbridge pipeline which, if constructed, will stretch across the lands and waterways of Northern BC and result in major oil tanker traffic in the ocean waters off BC’s Pacific coast.

Recently, an Ipsos-Reid poll, released exclusively to the Postmedia News chain, is alleging that, by a whopping 48 to 32 percentage, most people across the province are now in favour of the controversial pipeline. This poll, of course, was commissioned and paid for by the Enbridge Corporation.

The results are almost the exact opposite of another poll conducted by the Mustel polling group in 2010 and commissioned by pipeline opponent group “Forest Ethics”. That poll showed a 51 to 34 percent margin against the pipeline. The gap between the two polls is stunning.

Nonetheless, despite the huge disparity in poll results, the Postmedia News chain was quick to punch out headlines such as: “New poll points to pipeline support”, as well as articles claiming that the poll could be a “game changer” for project opponents. For its part, Enbridge has issued a statement that the “new poll” will set a “’proper context’ for the launch of National Energy Board hearings into Northern Gateway that begin this month in northern B.C.”

But the question needs to be asked: just what is Enbridge’s “proper context”?

A key part of Enbridge’s efforts to establish this “proper context” is to create the impression that the people of this region and across the province actually support the controversial pipeline. And even more than that, they “want” it to be built.